asterroc | (no subject)

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Scanning the various ballot measures listed by CNN, it turns out that Arkansas has a ballot initiative to prevent adoptions or fostering by unmarried couples - straight or gay. Glad to know they consider me an evil sinner too!

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How would it make miscarriages a case of manslaughter? That doesn't make any sense.

I guess one could argue it was caused by something the mother did. Be really hard to get twelve people to believe that beyond a reasonable doubt (I'd say it's pretty much built in on that one), but they could still file charges.

AFAIK while people have the right to a trial by jury, people often waive that right in favor of a decision by a judge, as there are circumstances under which the judge may give a more favorable sentence. In addition, the defendant can plea bargain and get a conviction that way. So the prosecution doesn't necessarily have to convince 12 people.

Depends on the circumstances that caused the miscarriage. Since the fetus is a person, if the person dies somehow (such as a miscarriage), there could be an investigation into how the person died. If it turns out it's from some action the mother took (such as continuing to drink alcohol through the pregnancy), then the mother is responsible for killing a person. Such is generally considered either manslaughter or homicide.

I don't know how commonly this would be applied if the law passed, but there is precedent for it: Utah apparently has a law defining personhood at some point during the gestation period, and the Melissa Roland was brought up on charges of First Degree Felony Murder for delaying a C-section which lead to the stillbirth of one of her children (the other twin survived). She plead guilty to a lesser charge of Child Endangerment and was convicted of it.

Article on Melissa Roland
Minutes of a Arkansas legislature discussion of a similar bill
YouTube video by Advocates for Pregnant Women w/ more examples from other states w/ similar laws

You mean to say not that it would make miscarriage manslaughter, but that it would make miscarriage with cause manslaughter.

Ah yes, perhaps "inducing a miscarriage" would have been a better phrasing.

Do you think an assault on a pregnant woman that causes her to miscarry should carry a stiffer penalty than another assault? That likely would be another consequence of this law, right?

I am still uncertain on that issue. I'd be more likely to agree w/ legislation about the issue if it only applied to after the third trimester or some other later date - I mean, something like 25% of pregnancies end in a miscarriage before the sixth week, so why accuse someone of murder if there was a good chance there'd never be a viable infant?

If this measure were intended for the sole purpose of increasing penalties for assaults on pregnant women, I'd consider it a horrible way of doing so due to so many unintended consequences.

Here's another thought for you. If a woman miscarries, has an abortion for medical reasons, or has an abortion for personal reasons, what should happen to the remains of the embryo/fetus? Does the woman (and her family) have to right to bring the remains to an undertaker and bury/cremate them? Or is it medical waste? It's my understanding that many states treat it as medical waste and the woman isn't even allowed to do anything with it. But in the case of a miscarriage, there often aren't any remains at all.

I agree with you that this would not be a well designed law if its only purpose was to increase penalties for assaults inducing miscarriages. That's obviously not what the law is about. Neither is it about punishing women for sipping a glass of alcohol after becoming pregnant.

I think that regardless of peoples' opinions of when life begins, it's terrible if laws prevent people from coping with a premature loss in the way they want to.

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