i would avoid saying any of these, because they are confusing. if i wanted to make sure somebody correctly interpreted what i was saying, i would say things like ‘twelve noon on [date]’ and ‘twelve midnight the night of [preceding date]’.
Yeah, this came up due to the fact that an administrator at my school insists on using such terminology incorrectly in emails about deadlines for applying to teach distance ed courses. You would think an administrator in charge of online courses would know better.
‘twelve midnight the night of [preceding date]’.
So if I said "12 midnight on August 15", would that mean August 14-15 to you, or August 15-16?
Most online teachers who use midnight/noon deadlines tend to put it in an even less ambiguous way than you suggest, for example "11:59pm August 15" or "12:01am August 16" are effectively the same time as each other.
even if you're using it correctly, it's really best avoided for those purposes.
‘12 midnight on August 15’ means August 14-15, but I would ask for clarification if you said it.
‘12 midnight the night of August 15’ means August 15-16. ‘the night of August 15’ starts sometime in the PM on August 15 and continues until i fall asleep, the sun comes up, or non-24-hour businesses start reopening for morning, whichever comes first (this is an oversimplification, but you get the idea). so, say, 2am on August 16 could still be part of ‘the night of August 15’. (i mean, if i were asked to describe what i did ‘Monday night’, and i was out until, say, 1:30am, i wouldn't stop my story at 11:59, on the grounds that after that we'd rolled over into Tuesday - it would still be part of the same night, and i'd continue the narration accordingly.)
and yeah, i would go with 12:01 or 11:59 if i could (at least if i were putting a deadline in writing), but assuming i had to say midnight or noon exactly for some reason, i'd say it as above.
η: for example, if i were giving a statement to the police about the events of the night of August 15, and i hadn't been checking the time carefully, i would say an event that happened at around midnight had happened ‘around midnight’, not ‘around 11:59pm’, because i'd be afraid that the latter would make it sound like i had more precise information than i actually did.
even if you're using it correctly, it's really best avoided for those purposes. ... i would go with 12:01 or 11:59 if i could (at least if i were putting a deadline in writing)
This is what bothers me about the situation that prompted this poll post. The administrator is not only putting it in writing, but he's actually using AM/PM wrong.
Oh, I think I get what you and q10 are saying now. "Twelve midnight the night of Aug 15" and "midnight, the night of Aug 15" would mean what I mean when I tell my students "11:59pm Aug 15" or (technically speaking) 12am Aug 16.
This is why I use 24 hour time. It doesn't have these problems. The day starts at 0 and ends after 23:59. I don't understand how people get confused by 24hr time. Subtract 12 you should be able to do that in first grade.
I prefer 24 hour time also. I don't think that it confuses people, I think that it just takes a bit of extra mental effort which many people aren't comfortable with and don't see the point of. (And if you don't know that someone's using 24 hour time, then it still can be confusing.) You get similar problems with metric units (for people in the US): they're not confusing, just unfamiliar.
It's not "confusing" (as in two times could get confused with each other) for any times other than 10:00-12:59. All other times are unambiguous, for example 04:00 or 15:00.
what about people who don't have military experience, but who've lived a substantial amount of time in countries where 24-hour time is relatively common among the civilian population?
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‘twelve midnight the night of [preceding date]’.
So if I said "12 midnight on August 15", would that mean August 14-15 to you, or August 15-16?
Most online teachers who use midnight/noon deadlines tend to put it in an even less ambiguous way than you suggest, for example "11:59pm August 15" or "12:01am August 16" are effectively the same time as each other.
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‘12 midnight on August 15’ means August 14-15, but I would ask for clarification if you said it.
‘12 midnight the night of August 15’ means August 15-16. ‘the night of August 15’ starts sometime in the PM on August 15 and continues until i fall asleep, the sun comes up, or non-24-hour businesses start reopening for morning, whichever comes first (this is an oversimplification, but you get the idea). so, say, 2am on August 16 could still be part of ‘the night of August 15’. (i mean, if i were asked to describe what i did ‘Monday night’, and i was out until, say, 1:30am, i wouldn't stop my story at 11:59, on the grounds that after that we'd rolled over into Tuesday - it would still be part of the same night, and i'd continue the narration accordingly.)
and yeah, i would go with 12:01 or 11:59 if i could (at least if i were putting a deadline in writing), but assuming i had to say midnight or noon exactly for some reason, i'd say it as above.
η: for example, if i were giving a statement to the police about the events of the night of August 15, and i hadn't been checking the time carefully, i would say an event that happened at around midnight had happened ‘around midnight’, not ‘around 11:59pm’, because i'd be afraid that the latter would make it sound like i had more precise information than i actually did.
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This is what bothers me about the situation that prompted this poll post. The administrator is not only putting it in writing, but he's actually using AM/PM wrong.
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Interestingly, "12 AM August 15th" and "midnight August 14th" mean the same thing to me.