debate?

[asterroc]

Anyone here been on debate team ever? What is permissable? I'm specifically trying to figure out if name-calling and cursing are considered "debate". This comes from some trashtalking people on parrot_lovers were doing of me in the name of debate. To me it's a flame war, not a debate. Debate includes civil rational discussion with the presentation of facts and arguments, and the criticism of said facts/arguments, without ad hominem attacks. Flame wars consist primarily of personal attacks.

Comments

[blue102.livejournal.com]

Kudos to you - you handled that extremely well. Probably better than I would have. :)

I was on the Speech and Debate team in HS, although I didn't personally do debate, I can clearly say that cursing and name-calling would have been frowned upon. WTF, indeed!

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Good good, that's what I thought. Nice to know I'm NOT losing my mind.

oops, messed that up...

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Hm, get a load of this one:

Considering that I am the one who stated you do a stupid thing, I will be the first to say that I did not say *you* are stupid or imply that in any way. Doing something stupid does not have anything to do with the intelligence of the person.

So to take this to an extreme, saying a person rapes children doesn't imply that they're a child rapist? Raping children has nothing to do with the person being a child rapist. So I guess she won't mind it if a person who has repeatedly raped children were to move in next door to her.

I guess I understand what she means to say, but I do not agree with her. It's SUCH a fine line that I'd need an electron microscope to tell the difference.

Oy. Reminds me of a post I wanted to write...

Re: oops, messed that up...

[blue102.livejournal.com]

Yeah... you are what you do, right? Because you can't be something that you don't do. I kind of see what she's trying to say but I disagree as well.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

There are instances where I'd agree with her - for example, smart people often do stupid things by mistake like pull on push doors or forget to carry the one in addition. However, in this instance we were discussing my well-thought out reasoning as to why I don't throw out all my Teflon. I spent a lot of time thinking about it. Therefore the things I say and do are deliberate, and insulting what I say/do is an insult to the thought process that got me there, and therefore to me.

It was also doubly insulting to me because she said that my attempt to bring in statistics was "bullshit to justify my carelessness." Um, no, it's an attempt to apply an objective viewpoint to the situation. Insulting and ignorant.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

The other issue though to "you are what you do" or "you are what you have done" is the implication that people cannot change. I'll have a post related to this probably tonight, and it's gonna be friends-locked.

[tiurin.livejournal.com]

I took a look at the thread and community. Those people aren't interested in debate, they're more interested in holier-than-thou flaming.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Oh no, not at all, they're not flaming me, they're just making statements and I *choose* to interpret them as flaming. Plus, it's *me* that's on the high horse.

I have to say that while bloolark's comment (that I was possibly unfit for bird ownership) stung the most, she *did* say it in the best possible way. She just has unrealistic expectations and thinks that everyone else is as godlike as her.

[the1hobbit.livejournal.com]

should I be afraid that I just joined this comm.?
But I do agree while most arent using any curse words, some of what they say IS belittling. Im sure not all of them are the best bird owner they can be, but yet if you say one things that can in n theory harm a bird, your a horrible person and should get rid of them.

Im sure it's going to be brought up that I have so many... but mehh, they all get love and attention, and I dont plan on parting with any of them ANY time soon. I should write them in my will though. ;-D

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

I've only been on it for a month or two myself. Unfortunately the "debate" often degenerates into flame wars, except the vocal people all deny that it's a flame war. There are a number of people who are very aware of what makes a "perfect" bird owner, and think they have acheived that state, and seem to look down upon those of us who haven't. However, do keep in mind that they ARE quite knowledgable. The people on parrot_lovers have more information than the people on cockatiels, so when I'm not frustrated by their antagonistic ways, I'd rather go to them for advice.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

By the way, you're a horrible person and a waste of air because your icon has the wrong "your/you're" in it. ;)

[the1hobbit.livejournal.com]

you know, for how long I've had that icon, I was waiting for someone to notice the grammatical error, because I wasn't going to change it till someone did(because I'm lazy and don't see the point of change unless I must.) And now, alas I do. :-p

THANKS ALOT!!! GAWD!!! ;-)

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Ha! I wonder how many people saw it and were just too lazy vs. how many people really didn't realize.

[the1hobbit.livejournal.com]

knowing most of the people who read my journal.....probably didnt realize it. SHH! I didnt say that!!!

[myoosikal.livejournal.com]

Haha, I noticed but wouldn't have said anything because i don't know the1hobbit and from my past experience on LJ, it's better to keep quiet about things like that. I have started several arguments that turned ugly just by correcting someone.

Anyway, about parrot_lovers... I stay there for the great info they provide, but I try not to read the debates. My curiosity often gets the best of me, but I usually regret reading. If I read something like what I read in that thread, I can't stop my fingers from typing what I think about it. I hate how they treat people there and act like people have no clue what they're doing. I also hate how they seem to think their way of caring for their birds is law or something. Everyone should follow the bird rules ya know. I don't think we could possibly take care of our birds if we tried to follow everything people told us about what's right and wrong. There would be so much conflicting information that it would be impossible. And God forbid you have an opinion in that community. The bosses tell you the rules and you follow them or they'll come take your birds away.

That was quite a lot to really only say that those people drive me crazy with their noses in the air at the rest of us "normal" people who do what we can.

Sorry for the very unorganized mess that I call a rant. See what they do to me? haha =P

Watch out for the bird police parrot_lovers members!

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Hee, yeah, I think I'd seen it before and not commented too.

I agree they have great info, I'm disappointed that I have to submit myself to insults in order to get that info. For now I'm sticking around for the pretty pictures and not asking for any info.