(no subject)

[asterroc]

Thanks to galbinus_caeli for the head's up, a German Islamic woman separated from her husband after he beat her. He then threatened to kill her with a knife, and she is sueing for a speedy divorce (less than 1 year of separation). The judge turned down the speedy divorce request saying that since they are of Morroccan Muslim origin, and the Koran states that a husband may discipline his wife as he sees fit, therefore beatings and death threats do NOT qualify as the "hardship" required for a speedy divorce under German Law.

I'm particularly interested to see what sammka and q10 have to say - you both always have interesting insights into how law and culture intersect.

Comments

[meig.livejournal.com]

Wow.

Just...wow.

[allandaros.livejournal.com]

The judge is full of it.

"If a man kills a believer intentionally his recompense is Hell to abide therein: and the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him." - Sura 4, Verse 93

"If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves (divorce)" - Sura 4, Verse 128

"And among His Signs is this that He created for you mates from among yourselves that ye may dwell in tranquility with them and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts); verily in that are Signs for those who reflect." - Sura 30, Verse 21

[best-ken-ever.livejournal.com]

Good comments, but I believe you might've forgotten to add the "Sh" in The judge is full of __it. (:

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Well, as far as I can tell the judge isn't denying her the right to a divorce, but to a speedy divorce. She's not saying the husband has unlimited right to beat or kill her, just that it's not unheard of. The example I came up with before is that of former astronaut Lisa Nowak. Since she was a threat, the judge put her bail at $10,000, but he didn't feel she was enough of a threat to set no bail whatsoever. It's just squabbling over the terms of his guilt, not whether he is.

[allandaros.livejournal.com]

But the judge's justification for denying the speedy divorce is patently wrong. It's bringing Islam into the proceedings in a completely ludicrous way, resulting in:
a) the woman undergoing MORE hardship
b) Islam is getting more association with ridiculous misogynistic crap

The judge's ruling makes no sense based on the legal codes of Germany, either.

[sammka.livejournal.com]

I'm totally unfamiliar with German law - are you familiar with their legal codes? Could you elaborate?

It DEFINITELY would make no sense if this were an Anglo-American decision.

[sammka.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I call bullshit on that. I don't know the German legal system and don't know what criteria are used for determining who gets a speedy divorce, but I'd be surprised if that were actually legal.

In America, culture is theoretically not an excuse for crimes like domestic violence. Divorce statutes vary by state, and I'm not an expert on them, but statutes that allow for speedy divorces based on violence aren't based on the idea that violence is condemned by the couple's culture, they're based on the idea that violence is dangerous and of concern to the state, and that the state has an interest in getting people out of violent situations as fast as possible. Actually, I could make a strong case that denying someone a speedy divorce in this situation explicitly because of her national origin would violate her 14th Amendment rights to equal protection under the law.

I don't think this is similar to the Nowak situation at all. Judges frequently set bail based on judgments of how dangerous people are. Dangerousness is a legitimate question in our legal system. There's an objective standard: "how likely do we think it is that this person will be violent?" It makes SENSE to make adjust legal consequences based on what someone's behavior was and is anticipated to be.

Whereas here, there seems to be no question that the husband is dangerous and threatened this woman's life. If the couple were both German and he behaved the same way, it seems like there would be no question that the divorce would be sped up. By saying that this woman doesn't get a speedy divorce, they are explicitly saying that his violent behavior is less worthy of legal concern because of his cultural background (or, worse, that her safety is less worthy of legal concern because of their cultural background).

I mean, I guess it COULD be worse since she could not be given a divorce at all, but discrimas it could be is still discrimination, and that's what this ination that isn't as bad is.

[sammka.livejournal.com]

I don't know what happened to that last sentence, but it should be "I mean, I guess it COULD be worse since she could not be given a divorce at all, but discrimination that isn't as bad as it could be is still discrimination, and that's what this is."