Language separation

[asterroc]

Last night T$ and I were watching a cartoon series by Tartakovsky last night, and I assumed he was Polish while T$ told me he was Russian. There ensued a conversation about how Poland had been part of Russia at times in the past, and vice versa, so it makes sense they'd have similar names. Which prompted me to wonder if there is a language that is partway between Russian and Polish, or if there's a pidgin combination of the two (or whatever the appropriate word is instead of "pidgin").

Does this really happen, are there "intermediate" languages when there isn't geographical separation between two regions with different languages? I'm thinking of a comparison between how languages separate and how species evolve, that it'll start with two subspecies that become more and more distinct, and sometimes there'll be a third subspecies that can interbreed with both even when the two extremes can't interbreed with each other. Is it like that?

I am hopeful q10 will reply to this with his expertise, but if anyone has info it'd be interesting.

Comments

[spazzy444.livejournal.com]

I know it isn't the same, but we were discussing the differences in the same language in different countries the other day. For instance the Queen's English vs US English. Spain Spanish vs South American Spanish.

I one day took my Ukrainian coupon (basically $$) to a friends (I was using as a bookmark) and my friend who was fluent in Russian was able to read it because the languages are very close. Probably due to the same Russian/Polish thing you were discussing. I also get asked if I'm Russian on occassion because I take after my father's side and he is 100% Ukrainian.

[hitchhiker.livejournal.com]

not only are there intermediate languages, there are the language equivalent of ring species - one beautiful example is a chain of villages between france and italy, where any two neighbouring villages understand each other, but on one end they're speaking french and on the other end italian.

[sildra.livejournal.com]

I remember being told in a class once that if you start in Portugal, go through Spain, through France, and end up in Italy, the people in each village will understand, and speak a dialect similar to, the people in a village adjacent to them, regardless of when you cross country boundaries (which are more or less how the language boundaries are defined there). But it isn't like someone from the middle of France can necessarily understand someone from the middle of Spain.

I wouldn't be surprised if the same were true for Chinese dialects.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

My mother used to speak some Shanghai, and she would be able to understand Mandarin and make herself understood to Mandarin speakers, but communication with Cantonese-only speakers was impossible both ways.

[q10.livejournal.com]

this isn't what i mostly work on, and i'm busy just now, but i'd start here.

remember that in a lot of cases, what's happened has been less that people go off and found different languages and stop speaking to each other, and more that people spread out and keep speaking to their neighbors but not the people a few hundred miles down the road. the consolidation of regions of such a continuum into ‘languages’ is something that often happens for political reasons and in some cases remains little more than a political fiction.

also, note that languages - even unrelated languages will borrow fro each other when they come into contact. even ignoring things we think of as recent foreign borrowings, there are plenty of English names that look like imports from French, Classical Greek, and probably Welsh.

[marquiswildbill.livejournal.com]

Most dialects of Yiddish are really similar to German. When I was fluent in German I could understand Yiddish quite well. I would need clarification of words and phrases that cane from Hebrew but that was it, and it was usually pretty easy for the other person to explain them.
I could also communicate with Dutch speakers wthout much difficulty.