Gameplay

[asterroc]

I was just discussing with rosefox (locked link here for my reference) that Magic: The Gathering, Fluxx, and Robert's Rules of Order all have a similar gameplay/mechanic. Specifically, the issue is figuring out which cards to play in what order, and then resolving which actually take place first. In Magic you have "first-in-last-out" and fast effects; in Fluxx you change the win conditions and what objects you and others own, as well as how many cards you're allowed to play; in Robert's Rules you have friendly amendments to motions, amendments to ByLaws, and Points of Order that can trump any action currently on the floor.

Further examples, to the best of my recollection of the rules.

Magic
Player A's turn
Player A: Tap Prodigal Sorcerer to do 1 damage to Player B.
Player B: Cast Fireball Lightning Bolt to do 3 damage to A's Proddie and kill it
Player A: Cast Counterspell to prevent the Fireball from being cast
Player B takes 1 damage.
Player B's turn
Player B: Cast Fireball to do 3 damage to A's Proddie and kill it
Player A: Cast Unsummon on Proddie to return it to hand


Fluxx
Rules: Draw 5, Play 5
Player A has Milk, Player B has Cookies. Player A's turn.
Option A: Draws 5, Plays "Steal Keeper" (Cookies), Plays "Goal: Milk & Cookies", Wins
Option B: Draws 5, Plays "Play 1", Turn over


Robert's Rules
Problem: ByLaws requires election of officers at meetings. Meetings do not have Quorum.
Agenda:
1) Amend the bylaws so that quorum is "those present."
1a) Do NOT do a quorum call since you don't have to, and hope no naysayers attend to do so.
1b) The amendment immediately takes effect.
2) Elect officers by a majority vote of those present.

And the same people in suits in a board room who game Robert's would never be caught dead with cards in their hands, let alone collectible ones.

Comments

[spazzy444.livejournal.com]

I <3 Fluxx =)

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

I find it kinda strange which of my friends do and don't like it. My CTY (nerdcamp) friends and their friends seem to love it, while T$ and his friends don't. Last time I played it with CTY-friends-of-friends though, after half a game the guys were yelling at me that I must have played Magic a lot and I think they quit playing with me after that one game. :-P

Seriously, I consider the game mechanics halfway between Magic and Uno, and I know if/when I have kids I'll be making them play it. It's not nearly as random as it seems on first playing, and it's a good example of how random chance and logic can combine to get the desired results.

[the-xtina.livejournal.com]

Fluxx is fantastic, especially after a session of Settlers of Catan.  "Rules rules rules omg rules... ah, fuck it."

[jrtom.livejournal.com]

You left out Nomic. :) (Not quite the same thing, but it's definitely a game with metalevels whose main focus is the manipulation of the rules. Someday I'm actually going to get people together to try playing that.) And, come to think of it, Mao.

I've played all three of these (although I'm not experienced at RR); it's interesting to me that it never occurred to me to compare MtG and Fluxx. I like the _idea_ of Fluxx quite a lot...but it feels to me like a game that isn't very well balanced and that (as a result of this and other things) doesn't really live up to its potential.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Haven't heard of Nomic before.

My main beef with Fluxx is the randomness of it. People often win by mistake from others' actions. The randomness makes it a good party game though, rather than a strategy game.

Mao, Fluxx, Uno, and RR have similarities that M:tG doesn't share with Mao, IMO. The game mechanic that I enjoy is not actually the manipulation of the rules and deciding which ones to enforce, but instead the fact that the *sequence* or *order* of playing the cards is crucial to the outcome of the situation. RR doesn't have as much of the sequencing as it does decision of which to enforce I guess, so perhaps it's closer to Mao than it is to M:tG.

[jrtom.livejournal.com]

Nomic is fascinating from a conceptual standpoint. Don't know how well it works as a game, though, to be candid.

I agree re: your assessment of the main problem with Fluxx. It's frustrating that a lot of the time you actually have little or no control over events. I've occasionally considered rules revisions to address this problem, but haven't really experimented with it.

I'm of two minds about the complexity of MtG that comes from the sequence dependency. I guess the short version is that I'd be happier about it if the sequence dependencies were less complicated, or at least expressed compactly on the cards somehow. MtG sometimes requires a lot of specialized knowledge of rules and constraints that are hard to research.

[seekingferret.livejournal.com]

Nomic seems to work well as an online game- I'm told there are play by email versions that have been running for years and years. In person, it's maybe too complicated to play, unless you have a LOT of time on your hands and a group of people with phenomenal attention spans.

We play an abridgement of Nomic called N from time to time, which strips out all the complications of Nomic and reduces it to simplest form:
1. The object of N is to win.
2. Play moves in a circle, with each person taking a turn.
3. On a person's turn, they propose a rule. If a majority passes it, it's part of the rules.

It's easy to explain, it's easy to start, and it can rapidly spiral out of control, especially if alcohol is involved.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Ah, that is reminding me of 1000 Blank White Cards, which I have yet to play and terribly want to do.

[seekingferret.livejournal.com]

You should play 1000 Blank White Cards! It's a lot of fun with the right people.

We then invented a variant called 1000 Blank White T-Shirts, in which each shirt assigns the wearer a power, which influences the game of tag/freeze tag we play. I am the keeper of the bag of shirts, which at this point has accumulated 40 shirts toward our goal of 1000.

I think my favorite shirt might be:

Johnny Depp
I am so hot I cannot stay frozen for more than a minute.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Hah! Awesome. I'm so bad at tag (I run slowly and have zero stamina) I'd have to have mine say something like "Invisible: All other players must play blindfolded."

[seekingferret.livejournal.com]

Heh... we have some shirts you'd find helpful. One, I can't remember what it was called, made you so fat that anyone within three feet of you was touching you. That was useful when you're it, not so good when you're not it. Another shirt, "The Flash", just said, "I'm faster than you." Hard to get tagged when you're wearing that shirt.

Most of the shirts were far sillier than those, of course. I'm a big fan of "Bruce Campbell, Pokemon Master" (named after the fact that the hero of the Evil Dead series shares a name with the hero of the Pokemon cartoons). If the wearer of that shirt tags you, you have to keep reciting the name on your shirt until the end of the game, as if you were a pokemon.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Got any that involved shirt swapping? Strikes me it could get quite hilarious in the meta-sense.

[best-ken-ever.livejournal.com]

I'm going to be a jerk and point out that you can't cast Fireball on someone else's turn or in response ("on the stack") to another fast effect, as it is a sorcery. You could replace it with Lightning Bolt, though, and your example works.

I think I would like Nomic more if I were more creative.

[jrtom.livejournal.com]

I'm rusty on MtG, but I think you're right...although I also have the feeling that there's a card that lets you cast a sorcery as an instant. (Granted, you'd have to play it first.)

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Heh. Hence my "as far as I can remember the rules" note at the top. :-P