Heaven

[asterroc]

I don't know which bothers me more: religious people saying that so-and-so will never get to Heaven because they aren't of their religion, or smug assurance that the soul of so-and-so will or did see the light and turn from their religion to the proper one and thus *will* be in Heaven. Along with the latter is the Mormon practice of baptism for the dead. In this practice, the living vicariously baptize the dead, regardless of the religion and wishes of the dead person while living, and then supposedly God then gives the dead soul the opportunity to accept the Gospel of Christ. *Grr*

Comments

[blue102.livejournal.com]

Baptism for the dead assumes, in my opinion, that God can't handle his own paperwork. If various Jewish organizations have requested numerous times that the LDS church stop baptizing Holocaust victims by proxy, then they should cease and desist. IF (and it makes my stomach churn to even make this assumption) the Mormons are "right", then why couldn't things just get sorted out afterwards? The end of the world comes, Armageddon, yada-yada-yada... you go to Chava and say "Dear, we weren't allowed to baptize you out of an Earthly respect for your people, would you like to take the Big Bath now?" What's the rush?

But there I go, applying logic to an illogical process.

On an academic note, the LDS belief is that if you've never heard of the Mormon church, you're off the hook. You get to hear about it in Heaven's Waiting Room, where it's assumed you'll Choose The Right. ;) If you don't, then you get sorted out with everyone else according to what you did in life, and if you haven't murdered anyone or "denied the spirit", you get to go to a middle-heaven, which is a bit nicer than Earth but you don't get a piece of God-front property. Not sure if he ever vacations to visit his mildly-wayward children, but I kind of like the middle-ground concept... as much as I can like anything related to church.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

I think other Christian groups have a similar belief about what happens if you've never heard of God before. I like the "middle-heaven" concept - how's that different from Purgatory? Or is Purgatory what you're referring to as Heaven's Waiting Room?

And I totally understand what you mean about liking church things - I can like the ideas of various religions (or parts of religions) without believing them.

[blue102.livejournal.com]

I had to wiki up "purgatory" to find out what it really meant. :)

From wikipedia:
"The term purgatory is generally defined as "the means by which the elect reach perfection before entering into the Kingdom of Heaven"."

Because this definition implies that Purgatory is a temporary place where one can work off their debt to God, I don't think it has an analogue in Mormon theology. What I referred to as "middle-heaven" (or "the terrestrial kingdom", in LDS parlance) doesn't have an out-door... once you get assigned a place, that's your eternal residence. The "waiting room" is called "the Spirit World", and it's where everybody goes to hang out before getting sorted into their place. So regardless of how someone spent their life, they go to the Spirit World... either to preach or get preached to, depending.

I really appreciate that you (zandperl) can like parts of religions without subscribing to them personally. That is such a foreign concept to so many people!!

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Hm, I think I used to picture Purgatory partially the way you describe the Spirit World. I'm going to have to wikipedia them both too. I like that we're starting to verb Wikipedia the same way we did Google.

I'm trying to come up with an analogy for liking parts of religions without believing them. Maybe it's like enjoying a concert without wanting to be a performer, or eating a cake but not baking it, or how I think Q's awesome but I wouldn't want to marry him. *grin*

[blue102.livejournal.com]

I like to combine technospeak with 'hood slang. "Wiki it on up, YO!"

{giggle!} Good analogies, especially the marriage one! As with religion, it's generally an exclusive arrangement... unless you're into a 'Big Love' type of scenario. And boy, I would pity the man that had you AND me as wives. That man would be running for the hills in about two days, leaving the two of us cackling our heads off.

[zandperl.livejournal.com]

Hah! Oh my, that image is going to keep me grinning for a while.